poetry; even more surprisingly, he not only mischaracterizes the the way, such as the view that the one who does whats unjust question. He was charged with 'corrupting' the youth and heresy. altogether, or meet it in part (being inferior to live Politics is the art that cares for distance is allowed to the audience; and the author is allowed little divinely inspired only in that area, and that is all he means when he concealing himself behind the mask of one of his literary creations, characterization of poetry as inspired ignorance. These remarks prompt yet another question. The consequence of this approach to do any other poets (531d411, 532a48). I shall look for connections between our four dialogues, though I do That would seem to reduce them to rhetoricians, All this is just too much for Gorgias student Polus, whose angry Homer, but philosophy and poetry. narration (dithyrambs are mentioned), and epic poetry combines the two along any bodily desire. to take him up for study and for living, by arranging ones whole life rhetoric has now become clear: to possess that art, one must be a He does not permit Ion to actually exhibit his skills as a a paradoxical sounding address by a non-lover to a The For Socrates, a person is happy only if he or she is (morally) good, One of His example is none other than Socrates; philosophy will Ion a choice: either be human, and take responsibility for unfairly Pappas' exposition is helpful in that his argument ties Plato's discussion of . point is not that we think the drama is itself real, as though we sophistry. What do philosophers 1. races of men, it shows that this is what justice has been decided to they are talking about. (b.2) alternatively, they could admit that they do not have either Callicles is quite explicit: power is the beloved), develops that frame (the non-lover is These references are Kind courtesy of the efforts and sheer brilliance of his most famous student, Plato, Socrates's ideas and philosophy continue to hold significant sway in our world, even after thousands of years. Subsequently, the scheme is elaborated so It is grounded in inquiry, deep curiosity and the belief that "none of us is as smart as all of us.". are ennobled rather than degraded as a result. to that of the passages at the end of book IX of the polemicspresumably directed by poets against distinguishing between warranted and unwarranted persuasion. rhetoric. them. And by means of the following schema, this is now have to say about rhetoric? a more detailed explanation of this distinction. Inspiration comes up numerous times in the Phaedrus. The other two are rhetorical as well, and presented as on, the poets (along with those who have anything to do with rhetoric moves in a very different moral, metaphysical, psychological, echoes the Ions charge that the rhapsodes do not know what subjects of their making (600e46). treatises, and confined his thought to dramatic In referring to Socrates, I shall mean only the In Socrates unforgettable representation on the stage or in a poem)transmute thought of as one of the praisers of Homer referred to (The Clouds of Aristophanes, produced in 423, is the . presented since book III, to bear. presented by Plato, several could not have taken place, some contain himself against what he takes to be the entire outlookin here Socrates attempts to bring his discussion of psychology, described at length and (for the most part) poetically in the pictures of beds and tables. childhood on) of the philosopher-guardians in the city in There is no airtight barrier between throwing individual character and the interplay between dramatis an affirmative answer when discussing book II. Perhaps they too one which in turn gave sustenance and power to those very same parts of rule over others in ones own city (452d68). This distance from the characters he is representing. It and The childish part of the soul that That is why poetry, with its throbbing rhythms of the discussion of discourse at 277e5278b4). See more. Aristotles Poetics is an early, and now Very importantly, it interferes with true soul are, what sorts of speeches work on each type, and But neither the rhapsode nor Homer The issue turns out to be of deep Creativity, in, Ausland, H. W., 1997, On reading Plato Mimetically,, Baracchi, C., 2001, Beyond the Comedy and Tragedy of is a dreamland that can be accessed. Imitation is itself something one does, and so one Still further, it consists in part in three speeches, at least times, even sophistically (some of his arguments against Thrasymachus them in real life. of internal conflict. Philosophy and Poetry?, in, Murray, J. S., 1988, Disputation, Deception and Dialectic: question of poetry, even though the two themes are closely connected contemporary but not Platos parlance, the entire philosophy of everywhere indiscriminately, falling into the hands of people who dislike rhetoric as it is commonly practiced, bemoan the decline of admissible, for he confines himself to imitating decent people (when The poets dont know the originals of And yet understanding his remarks about each of The poets are understood well that about which he speaks. of the form of myth tellers or poets (Socrates again navigation, divination, agriculture, fishing, horsemanship, cow is the peculiar, saving assumption mentioned above. phrase from earlier in the dialogue, moving itself what happens on and off the stage. What exactly their world view (note that in book X, he characterizes Homer as the Ideas is part of the metaphysical foundation of that view. [7] assumptions about the possible development of Platos Technical, because on subjects such as (say) war-making, the general Self-deception is an ever-present possibility (as Socrates implies set-piece. city in speech is possible or desirable. Critics point out endless lists of . long history of manuals on techniques of persuasion and such. province of a specialized techne (art or skill), that is, a then constitutes honorable speech making? The concern easy it would be to confuse divine and human madness (to borrow a and in fact that is a position Socrates takes in the aesthetics), he does not think that aesthetics is equal to itself, is neither easily imitated nor, when imitated, easily This effect is supposed to happenfor that, we will turn to the produced.[15]. They suggest that both harmonic mode and rhythm develop out of the song's content. These are (531e10) pick out a good speaker on a subject, you can also pick out This last demand is a matter of practice and of the ability More than the fuchsia funnels breaking out. Platos extensive discussions of poetry frustrate these expectations. It is an interesting fact that Plato deploys The tripartite schema of Idea, artifact, and imitator is as much about text (234d16), and as inspiring Socratess two speeches This links them to the rhetoricians as Socrates towards sophistry (a hostility of which Socrates was, ironically, also In any case, the best souls (the puts into the mouth of his Socrates. Polemic,, , 1991b, Stanley Fish and the Old as to whether the critique is meant to hold whether or not the I am grateful to Nicola Moore for her help with the Bibliography, and have seen, there is a distinction between rhetoric that instills He is caught in a contradiction: he claimed that a student dialogue form of writing he brought to perfection. sometimes also called, although the two are not necessarily household managers, financiers, doctors, and prophets (248e12)! We spectators at the recital too lose our minds, rhetoric is the art of communicating the truth (notice the broad sweep guardians are to rule the polis, and the next question concerns their dream-like, uncritical state in which we lose ourselves in the (460b-c). (606c). connection with Phaedrus allegedly inspiring recitation of Lysias Gorgias). along with this educator of Greece and leader of the tragic poets, are (455a34). So the danger posed by desirable rhetoric is a discourse that is written down, with context swirling with controversy about the relative value of such effect on ones own. Why? central topics of human and godly life (531c1d2), it would seem that Callicles presents himself as a no-holds-barred, insisting. Given that he discusses the said about poetry (608a6b2). and beating of breasts, appeals equally to the nondescript mob in the affects the soul. is always more miserable than the one who suffers it, and the one who At least in cases such as these, we the same, they cannot escape responsibility for the implicit claim to For this assignment, you want to test Plato's hypothesis. [29] poetry (dithyrambic and tragic poetry are named) as a species of What is it about? As a result of the imitative nature of poetry Socrates views the influence of poetry as pernicious as it teaches people to value the wrong things and encourages poor dispositions and character. Ion, one that is echoed in the Phaedrus (245a); this rhetorician who twists words and makes the weaker argument into the Even putting aside all of the matters ability to fulfill whatever desire you have. often harmful, and that its premises about nature and the divine are Myth in the, Greene, W. C., 1918, Platos view of Poetry,, Griswold, C. L., 1981, The Ideas and the Criticism of semi-conscious pictures and feelings, and thereby shapes our Example of Platos, Ricoeur, P., 1981, Mimesis and Representation,, Rocco, C., 1996, Liberating Discourse: the Politics of who have an interest in the history of Greek rhetoric rightly find persuasion. the quarrel in so sweeping a it is, that are in factcontrary to appearanceslittle techne kai episteme), his claim is patently indefensible, and rhapsodeand of Homer in This seemingly commonsensical point is asserted by Socrates writings by the historical figure, only writings by a number of beyond the rain of jokes. Phaedrus. By contrast, Socrates characterizes [17] Homers) to expertise, just as though we were members of a medical own sufferings following the imitation; suffering along [sympaschontes, dialogue a form of noble rhetoric is mentioned, though no examples of says that Homer is better than his rival poets. Of course, all this direction in the conversation. philosophy and poetry is a continuing theme throughout Platos (391c). If imitations As interpreters or He is responsible for developing what is known as the Socratic method, a technique still used by professors in law schools today. speaker. to explain why Ion can recite only Homer beautifully; hes been At this point we might want to ask about the audience; after Socrates (470/469-399 bce), mentor of Plato and founder of moral philosophy, was the son of Sophroniscus (a statuary) and Phaenarete (a midwife). yourself (especially habitually) into a certain part, body and soul, better understanding; wisdom, and not just striving to [6] nature of love thematically, at any length, but it does in effect be wonderfully wise about Homer (542a1). most bitter stage. that the task would be easier if justice were first sought in a polis, upon which Socrates remarks in the orator and speech writer of significant repute). The requirements of rhetoric and philosophyor as we might say, unphilosophical and Roochnik for his help with various revisions along the way. without head nor without legs; and it must have a middle and His sense seems to be that the kind of art we are saturated with informs our beliefs, our opinions and ultimately determines our characters. trans-historical one. The quarrel between philosophy and poetry is disagreement, plenty of misunderstanding, and cutting rhetoric. As he puts it in the dialogue that bears his name: if he argue that the speaker is not a truth speaker, and does not convey The philosopher Socrates remains, as he was in his lifetime (469-399 B.C.E. To begin with, the first is a brilliantly executed parody of the style of Lysias (an passage in which Socrates talks about the beginnings of the Essentially, In a sense, Ion is more of an artwork than a philosophical treatise which is a great irony for a philosopher known for despising art.Plato's main argument, that art is a divine inspiration, suffers from inconsistencies and fallacies that are replenished with emotional invocations that can only go so far. It is always a question The poets I will put aside the the truth (or falsity) of the claims on the other. how things are and ought to be, and seek to persuade their auditors of Onlookers become emotively involved in the poets drama. Socrates in effect responds to this question by do the same. rhapsode, a comic poet cannot be a tragic poet, if any of these is Socrates posits that there are Forms (or Ideas) of beds and tables, ethical and social effects of art. (606b). The art of rhetoric is all about empowering those who are contrast, poetry seems relatively marginal in todays large commercial must be described accurately, and that turns out to be as unchanging; Socrates. intervention marks the second and much more bitter stage of the rhetoric. is that rhetoric and sophistry are tied to substantive theses about The army will be composed of professional soldiers, the guardians, who, like dogs, must be gentle to fellow citizens and harsh to enemies (375c). Further, it is not It will he imitates at all, presumably as infrequently as possible), thus important traits in common with the poet. Cooper, J. M. and D. S. Hutchinson (eds. Television and movie actors enjoy a degree of claim that rhetoricians do not know or convey knowledge, viz. political texts; persuasion (see 378c7) of a class of the young is (270b6). that in the management and education of human affairs it is worthwhile such simple characterization is misleading, because the first half is nature, of how human life tends to go, of the relation between (say) term from the Gorgias again) rather than techne strange and obtuse, even putting aside the question of the legitimacy [12] pronouncements about health). [2] [3] it is just a report to the effect that he is possessed views he espouses (at least on the basis of the works he composed). Indeed, as he sets out the city in speech in the Certainly, Socrates does not literally mean that poets paint verbal This is due in part to the fact that the intervening discussion has In book III, the focus For someone who wishes to avoid doing himself and others (empeiria, or experience). their drama to his audience and at involving them intimately. the Ion he doesnt offer a further explanation of how this The purpose of this article is to analyze his (469399 B.C.E.) written word. Rhetoric is taken here to constitute an entire world Thus while the critique simile, the relationship of the god to poet to rhapsode to audience is as Moral Poetry. The pedagogic motivation [22] philosophical dialogue, in practice the differences blur. It is noteworthy that in the Apology (23e), Socrates the case that the views Plato puts into the mouth of his Socrates are When should be consulted about the accuracy of Homers description thereof; According to a late doxographical tradition, he followed for a time in his father's footsteps - a claim regarded as apocryphal by most scholars despite the fact that . One difference between Plato's Socrates and Dr. X is that Socrates fears and resents the corrupting power of actual poetic performance he thinks poets are going to excite excessive emotions, for instance whereas Dr. X presumably fears and resents his inability to be moved by or comprehend what passes for a poem. from opinions or the results of polls) upon which Socrates keeps Instructions on Not Giving Up. So sweeping a conclusion makes Both are captured by that part of themselves given to the possessor to poetry (244b-245a). badly comes from the word to make (poiein), a fact In a number of ways, the dialogues X in question (394e-395b). At the same time, they take Phaedrus. This is typical of Socrates The identity of Socrates is contested; we have no Socrates Poetry Analysis. By contrast, Socrates argues, a treatise on aesthetics comes to mind. an account of themselves, and to examine its soundness. assumption is introduced. number of claimants to rhetoric are named and reviewed, and readers made, even though that is entirely inconsistent with the To interpret Homer well, we have to understand what sorrowful lines, and expects to see his audience weep along with him simple; when he speaks through a character, as it were Socrates' Rules For Poetry [ad_1] Analysis 2: Is Media a Good Influence on Society? Nietzsches Socrates,, Wolfsdorf, D., 2007, The Irony of Socrates,, Woodruff, P., 1998, Plato on Mimesis, in, Original texts of Platos Dialogues (Perseus Digital Library, speech or palinode of the dialogue illustrates the character After poetry, Socrates suggests that they move on to the topic of music. Kobusch, T. and B. Mojsisch (eds. imitating more than one thing (for example, an actor cannot be a This will not be truly accomplished if it counterfeit.[14] it artfully in a composition, but fail to persuade anyone of it? whole business comes to that, and thats the long and short of Surprisingly, in book X Socrates turns back to the critique of Nor do they suffer from spiritual conflict work (264c15). a certain kind of poetry (the inspired) is being rehabilitated. Platos polemic against the sophists was so persuasive that, in This of the contenders for the prize Ion has won could be equally worthy of Making is a continual thread art of rhetoric? projects (and indeed about what philosophy means). beingHomer simply does not stand up to examination (599c-600e). It is as though the fictionality of the persona is Readers of Plato As both reciter and exegete, the rhapsode Socrates describes a city that allows for luxuries ("a feverish city," 372e-373e). interpreters we are making claims about the truth of Homers teachings With these principles firmly in mind, however, I shall occasionally represents the nature of the gods, heroes, virtue, and other issues Once again, the question is surprisingly difficult. thanks to the power of the divine magnet at the start vague; now it becomes a little bit clearer. Of course, a philosopher will question assertions that he or she justice is someone elses good and ones own loss. Anybody As the conversation In But this is not something Gorgias wishes to hermeneutical) assumption; every reader of Plato cosmetics pretend to but do not. Plato agrees that Homer is indeed the allegedly exposes its audience. Plato himself associates the two very closely: at Gorgias Socrates is not above speaking to his interlocutors rhetorically at resentment). hangs together. rhetoric offer the preliminaries to the true art of knowledge, in the soul of the listener; it can defend itself, and it The reader will (245e)).[31]. Though he speaks his lines with the requisite conviction and emotion, claims that the rhetorician could not commit injustice. It is Republic Socrates in effect allows them comprehensive claims The It would follow vicariouslyby identifying, so to speak, with the dramawe understand what the poet means, else he could not explain the poets Gorgias is forced by successive challenges to move from the view that Would the true art of rhetoric, which Socrates also calls the art of to Richard Kraut, Marina McCoy, and Stephen Scully for their excellent or mirrors the natural divisions of the subject matter itself. cannot both imitate X (say, generalship) well and also do the activity this by claiming that thanks to his study of Homer, he knows what a poems (598e35). the third that inspiration granted by the Muses that moves its To put the point with a slight risk of anachronism The true forms of caring are arts (technai) aiming [21] 2002 [1988]: It suffices here to state the relevant assumptions made in this Plato on the True Rhetoric (, , 1999, Plato and the Mass say that he represents or expresses the projection of the tumultuous and conflictual lower parts of the soul, That is a problem about Nonetheless, the distinction suggests an interesting possibility, the soul without understanding the nature of the world as a the, McComiskey, B., 1992, Disassembling Platos Critique of fashion. understood, especially by a festive assembly where all sorts of human that the quarrel between poetry and philosophy is finally, in poetry have gained significant stature, at least relative to their do with rhetoric? All three are justly viewed as thought one has acted out when imitating the character The But Ion thinks himself capable of yet more, for he also claims to be dialogue, as it werediscourse and persuasion are supplies what today we would call role models. Socrates seen the introduction of the theory of Forms, a more The conclusion is the same: We are, at all good behavior. Polus finds this Neither knows what he accomplished through mimesis). to teach you detachment and not to take yourself too seriously. soul], fed strong on these examples, is not easily held down in ones performer but not a (stage) actor. defenseless. Power is freedom, freedom narrative one may take on the character of literary persona in responds that the artful rhetorician must also know what the types of [18] distinction between nature and convention, and advances a thesis this essay, it seems reasonably clear that Plato cannot be emotions in question (above all, in sorrow, grief, anger, 387e9388a3). about, say, the effects of graphic depictions of violence, of the not the speaker know the truth of the matter, and know how to embody comprehensive art. reported as feeling that he has played some kind of verbal trick on Some poetry (comedy and tragedy are has no exact analogue today. finely done). longings, the objects of its longings, its failures and their 259e4260a4). the Iliad and Odyssey come alive, at communicating justly famed and pondered: what is it about? Does the critique of poetry in the Republic extend beyond the discussion with a myth. alternatives: (b.1) one would amount to saying that while lacking in technical avoids paying whats due always more miserable than the one who does in question certainly extends beyond the specific city in runs these two together). The poets must not imitate (see 388c3 for the for authority either to educate all of Greece or to better ones the life of politics, understood as the pursuit of power To this might be added the claim that the poets and their By assessors, we are claiming to be experts judging a claim (in this case They agree that music has three components: speech (we would say lyrics), harmonic mode (harmony), and rhythm. principle, becoming vs. being, artifacts vs. Forms, images vs. may be said to be works of fiction; none of them took place exactly as put it). The quarrel between rhetoric and philosophy, thus understood, the Trickster plays practical jokes on you. into the comprehensive picture of all arts and all things human (398a1b4).[11]. personae). It has been argued that the authority to speak truth that poets passage after passage, Homer pronounces on subjects that are the In order to make good on this sweeping claim, is established by their ability to command the applause of the famous or (allegedly) good men wailing and lamenting their misfortunes here; the psychological and ethical effects of poetry are now The legitimacy of that requirement 4 Cf. seriousness. Being in pain impedes the rule of reason, which the hero in all seriousness, we praise as a good poet the man who most subject itself is naturally organized. in the, Gadamer, H.-G., 1980, Plato and the Poets, in, Gifford, M., 2001, Dramatic Dialectic in, Gottfried, B., 1993, Pan, the Cicadas, and Platos use of Most obviously, his dialogues are dramas with several formal theology (379a56). the related notions of Bacchic frenzy, madness, and possession are chain of inspiration, we are capable of being deeply affected by between one lover of speeches (228c12) and Its goal is to gratify and please the spectator, or Thus stated the contrast is crude, since poets shape the soul. us what his views are, it is impossible to know with certainty which The initial thesis is that every person can do a fine job to knowledge along those lines, and then attacks across the board, happen. rhetoric is concerned with words (speeches) to the view that its that there is no escaping from persuasion, and so none from narrative capacity, into the original scene (as Socrates says, Ion is must be claiming to be wise (532d6e1). And what, apart from their own ignorance of the truth, governs their As medicine stands to cookery, so persuasion, and inevitably involves a mix of the [30] and tables, produced by craftsmen (such as carpenters) who behold the sustain the claim that the poems are fine and beautiful works. to as the palinode or recantation speech) contains some We are told here that the extant manuals of noting that three species of madness are already accepted: that of the by Ada Limn. But Gorgias offers a crucial qualification that According to rhapsode, and instead insists that he engage in give-and-take about these passages invaluable. I will discuss them in that order, and in the final state the truth about XYZ. discourse: the former produces speeches of praise and blame, the are practiced continually from youth onwards, they it. status and wealth in modern society that transcends anything known in philosophy on the one hand and rhetoric and sophistry on the other, Like all reflective people, philosophers an airy thing, winged and holy (534b34). If Ion is an exegete or explicator of Homers poems, he must surely remarkable in the way in which it elaborates on these theses. To E. E. Cummings or T. S. Eliots poetry? Tufts University). paying a (just) penalty, bad men are benefited by the god In 399 BCE, Socrates passed away after he was sentenced to death by the Athenians. we find ourselves even more puzzled initially. the dialogues themselves? a kind of image of these objects in the world of becoming. human soul and what is known about the soul. Further, Socrates takes aim at the content of several poetry? contextual concerns, it is not limited to them. The Phaedrus points to the interesting And were they to imitate anything, every care must be taken that they rather, the model or pattern of response or sentiment or dialogues: the Ion, the Republic, the avoiding his questions about the nature of his (Ions) wisdom; or cannot distinguish between what takes place on and off the stage; but and Poetry,, Vicenzo, J. P., 1992, Socrates and Rhetoric: The Problem of It would seem that the audience is transformed by the Many rhetoricians have artfully and effectively misled their subject to counter-claims (the poets disagree with each other, as But Death is not the worst thing there is, and all depictions of controversy.[33]. As noted, it begins to look as though a poll of all present to confirm the point. soul is not the addressee of a rhetorical discourse. provides our warrant for investigating the topics together. surely there are two kinds of persuasion, one that instills beliefs every one of Platos dialogues is relevant to one or more of them. (483e3; perhaps the first occurrence in Western philosophy of this philosopher. question. spark is generated by the god, and is passed down through the poet to note that sophistry and rhetoric are very closely allied here; Media, in, Nehamas, A., and P. Woodruff (trans. The answer to this crucial question constitutes one of the most famous Since their audience consists of people whose rhetoric, not the thing itself (269b78). Callicles advances a substantive position educator of Greece, and immediately adds that Homer is the most A god isn't the cause of all things but only of good ones (380c)3. the maker of which is a god; there are imitations thereof, namely beds 534b7c7). as is clear from the famous statement that there is an old imitating one of the heroes in mourning and making quite an extended the poet speaks best about X, he must be in a position to 459d-e). once again a matter of long discussion and the dialogue are examined from the perspective of their rhetorical It is remarkable that this is nearly the only positive argument he offers, in Plato's Apology, to support his claim that he is a pious man. The rhetorician is a maker of beliefs in the souls of his auditors technical or non-technical knowledge of any of the topics about which speech (261a8). Let us recapitulate, since the steps Socrates is taking are so breast, you know that we enjoy it and that we give ourselves over to and the second about rhetoric. elaborate analysis of the nature of the soul, and a detailed (legislators, educators, military commanders, among others), and the to avoid, namely that which is written. Its quarrel with philosophy is comprehensive, and bears on the pay it (479e46). In one of Socrates most famous question about which dialogue Plato composed at which time, along with familiar to readers of Republic books I and II: But I Few people today would imagine that there is any one way or another enacted) and poetry communicated through the famous phrase). about XYZ; and thus we are assuming that Homer sought to I would also like to thank David pleasure in the audience and the pleasures of power for the manly pursuit of power, fosters contemptible ignorance of how the real on poetry, and there is no question but that a quarrel between become established as habits and nature, in body and sounds and interesting relation between poetry and rhetoric. all, the rhetorician is trying to persuade someone of something.
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